On the latest episode of the Schaeffer's Market Mashup podcast, Fan-favorite Jermal Chandler is back, with a new title! The tastytrade on-air talent joins Patrick to discuss what he's watching this summer (7:59), i-n-f-l-a-t-i-o-n, (11:40), how to handle volatility spikes as a retail trader (16:40), applying contrarianism to today's SPAC/NFT fads (21:37), and the exciting developments over at tastytrade.com (25:00)
Transcript of Schaeffer's Market Mashup Podcast: May 27, 2021
Patrick: Before we get to this week's episode, I want to take a second and highlight what we've been working on over at Schaeffer's. You've no doubt heard of the popular sell in May and go away trend. Well, as contrarians, we recently identified five stocks that are poised to buck that trend and enjoy strong growth this summer it's only available for a limited time. So, head over to the link in this episode, bio, to get the free report, you can confirm folks. I did say free, check it out without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Schaeffer's Market Mashup. I'm back from vacation, refreshed as ever stoked for this week's episode. Please welcome back, Jamal Chandler. Now an on-air talent@tastytrade.com and a Lego enthusiast as I had just found out Jamal what's happening, man.
Jermal Chandler: Man, you know, building Lego's every now and again, but in between that, I mean just doing a little bit of work, you know, checking out markets, man. It's good to talk to you again and it's been a minute.
Patrick: Yeah. So, I looked back through the archives we last spoke in September. It's a very different world in those last let's see, eight months. I honestly, it feels like two years, but geez. I mean, we've got election, vaccines, recovery psych recovery, inflation, everything. We'll unpack all of that shortly, but first I do want to clear something up with you, in our emails leading up to this episode, you said you're not an Atlanta sports fan anymore because I had all these Trae Young, Julio Jones things to take on you. So, you turned your back on your childhood team here. What's going on?
Jermal Chandler: No, so, you know, the thing is, is like I moved around a good bit as a kid. So, I grew up in Miami and that's kind of where the roots started. You know, as far as teams, there's teams, that I'm never going to be able to shake and that's the dolphins and that's my Miami hurricanes. Now I did not go to university of Miami, but that's just, you know, when you grow up, especially when you're growing up, when I grew up there, that was the squad man. So those are the main two teams. I went to college in Atlanta and not definitely got love for Atlanta. They got some cool young guns these days, like you mentioned, Trea Young and Julio. We'll, see how long Julio is there, but I've moved around a good bit ever since. And we can touch on a couple of sports, seems a little bit, but Chicago is home, you know, and that's what it is. So, when it comes to the majority of the teams, a lot of them are going to be eliminated from Chicago.
Patrick: Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Full-On Chicago convert, I get it. You're eating deep dish casserole, you know, I'll leave you be there. So, you've got a new role over there at tasty. Tony's an icon over there for sure, frequent guests with us. What makes their options trading mechanics different?
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, you're right. Thank you for the congrats, I do have a new role that I'll touch on. But you know I've been in this business 15 years for the past three, I've been lucky enough to talk to everyday people about options trading and how they can become self-directed investors. And of course, we saw a huge shift in retail trading last year and my good buddy at CBO Henry Swartz has done a lot of you know, work showing this a lot of his charts showing one lot trades, odd lot trades. I mean the retail movement has been undeniable. So, if you're going to inform the retail crowd about options trading, then why not do it with the best? So, I called up Tom Sosnoff, who is a giant in the field. He's also a friend he and the brain trust at Tasty Trade are the creators of that often-used think or swim platform.
And they started tasting in 2011 and Tasty Trade is a financial media network for options and futures trading, unlike no other, for those who are unfamiliar with it. So, I said, look, Tommy, here's what you're going to do you're going to, no, I'm just kidding. I basically begged the dude for a job because it's such a cool company. We got like eight hours of programming every day, Monday to Friday, just, you know, great, great people with so much knowledge from the industry. Several shows, tons of different content on options trading and talking to people about break evens and the best way to manage, you know, there you know, self-directed portfolio. But more importantly, all of this is with side a personality. So, the aim of eventually is just, you know, to help people understand the esoteric nature of options and futures with easy-to-follow trading mechanics in a non-intimidating way.
And some of those concepts, that make us different and separate us are, you know, trade small, trade often. We're largely talking to people about how to sell premium and the correct way to do that. Using the law of large numbers to take advantage of multiple occurrences markets, you know, helping them understand the idea that the markets are random. So, it's pretty difficult to be directional and I certainly have spent plenty of years of my trading career at a prop firm, you know, times when we were directional with the movement and the stock. Or whether we were directional with volatility. But it's, we're just trying to help people understand it's hard to be directional. So, you want to try and be product and different when you're selling volatility and you want to avoid [unclear 05:37] liquid underlying’s.
You want to trade those monthly expirations as opposed to weeklies, again, getting to this idea of liquidity, trading liquid options and stocks where you can get in and out relatively easily and seamlessly. You want to try and manage trades, especially those that are winning trades close out the trade if you're winning from them. I mean, that's a huge win if you can do things like that, and then finally, like managing trades mechanically, as opposed to emotionally, right. When something's going against you, trying to find ways to manage that mechanically and using research that we have that shows different ways to manage those types of trades. So, you know, just things like that. And we also have, you know, a volatility rank that we use across time periods. So, across a year's period to check and see if volatility is elevated or cheap, that's our ID ranked model for that.
And, you know, we use guidelines to help determine those optimal times to allocate capital based on overall market volatility environment. So, for example, like if the VIX is anywhere between 15 and 20, then you're probably like 30% in with your capital allocation, as opposed to all the way in, cause you want to wait for better opportunities when volatility is higher. And so, you use like the fixed for that type of thing. So, I'd say that's what makes us different.
Patrick: Yeah. I mean, from a far, you guys are one of the most hardworking, you know, units in the industry with the content that you put out it's unique, like you said, it's personality driven, but then again, you guys have your own metrics and your own scorecards really that sets you apart. So, I mean, everything you guys do, I try to gobble it up as quickly as possible. So, I mean it's, when we found out that you had joined there, I think Katie and I had said like, wow, that's, you know, like a match made in heaven. So, it's great to see, you know, you guys putting out just outstanding content. But I do want to pivot back into September and jump right in. We talked about COVID's impact on oil, restaurants, retail, and real estate. We hit everything eight months later, how are those sectors Ferring? And then ahead of, what's looking like to be an amazing summer for reopening, what do you have your eye on going forward?
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, you're right. It's looking like an amazing summer for reopening, for sure. I mean you know, well, you know, honestly, it does feel like you said, you know, you talk about time now and it's so weird. We talk about like last year, or you talk about something that happened two years ago, you often have to realize, no, that actually happened three years ago. But in our case, speaking of September, you know, oddly enough, I'll let you in on a little secret. I did our show last September; just days after me and family had COVID in the house. So that was kind of wild.
Patrick: Wow.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, it was kind of rough. It hit me the hardest everybody else was kind of okay. My kids and my wife were, you know, kind of had mild symptoms, but it hit me the hardest. So that was interesting, but you know, a lot changed since then, like you said, I mean, we're all fully vaccinated now, so that's kind of nice, but yeah, I mean, a whole lot has changed. I mean, in September 2020 COVID cases were rising, including mine. We had, you know, equity markets, particularly the NASDAQ and volatility rising at the same time, which is typically a sign of a near turn top. And it was, we saw that big move down, like after like September 2nd, I think it was last year, so things were crazy right.
Today, honestly, I haven't focused on the traditional sectors as much I mean, the sectors were a big deal at that time due to the anticipated sector rotation that we usually see around elections. And we saw big sector rotation, like in November and December and January now I'm watching data and signals that kind of determined their effects on the overall market volatility. So, like right now we've got this red-hot housing market, right. You know, new home sales cooled a little bit in April, but the housing market is crazy. I'm sure you've noticed that. And it's hard not to notice commodities, my goodness. I mean, there's been a surge in demand for all out-lot ton of materials. That's basically in some cases led to shortages. I mean, we got copper, that's trading over 10 and we got iron or, we got corn, wheat, soybeans, coffee, and lumber.
Patrick: Lumber.
Jermal Chandler: You're right; you're like right on with me like lumber oh my goodness. Which of course is bleeding into the housing market, right? Like, I mean, I saw something the other day two by four in Wisconsin. I mean, they're selling them for like $12 and they used to be like a buck. I mean, if that doesn't get to the word, we're going to get to in a second, I don't know what does, but you know, semiconductors, which is bleeding into the auto sector because of all the semiconductors they use with cars and whatnot, plastic and cardboard packaging.
So, like every commodity is just on full tilt right now. We see travel demand return in a big way. I mean, how about this for TSA numbers? Like for this month already, for average, for 2021, we have one and a half million people screening through TSA versus 200,000 for the same time last year versus 2.4 million for 2019. So, we're not quite at 2019 numbers yet, but we're way above where we were a year ago. And we're seeing restaurant capacity increases; oil consumption is back, man. I mean, oil, we know what happened with oil last year. And so, we see oil now trading back in the 60 plus range. So much of this of course is due to the high rate of vaccinations. And of course, it's leading back into I-N-F-L-A-T-I-O-N, inflation. So yeah, I mean, that's basically what I'm watching more than anything.
Patrick: Where you nervous you were going to spell that right there?
Jermal Chandler: I was a little bit nervous. I was, you know, I had to check, I had dictionary.com right next to me just to make sure. But yeah, I was doing a little Aaron Rogers thing right there. You know what I'm saying? R E L A X.
Patrick: Well, I mean, should we relax about inflation? This is deviating a little bit from what we want to talk about, but what do you got for me there?
Jermal Chandler: I mean, you know, they keep saying it's transitory right?
Patrick: Yes, that's what Clarita said yesterday.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, right. And I mean, we, there's been a ton of jokes about that. I'm a huge swear to God I'm on Twitter quite a bit. And people are showing all kinds of charts with, you know, things busing out through the top of those charts and saying, don't worry, it's transitory. And you know, to some degree, I mean, you would think it's true, right? I mean, everything was certainly transitory last year when we went into lockdown mode, and everybody was hoarding things that was a transitory thing. You would imagine there's going to be a rush to everything; everything's going to be happening at once. Everybody, I mean, I don't know about you, but how many, you know, peer gatherings are you starting to get invited to? Are you starting to hear about things, everybody's doing something? So, I feel like I'm going to be different and say, yeah, I do think it's kind of transitory. I don't know how long the transition will be. And I think that's the key, right. But I think it's transitory.
Patrick: I've had, this May has been incredible with the amount of linkups I've had with people because we have group texts going around. Like you get your second shot, you get your second shot you two weeks after boom. Okay let's all go. And that's a, that's not just limited to my own social circle that is widespread.
Jermal Chandler: I would agree.
Patrick: And so, I mentioned Clarita's remarks I do want to run back to or stay with the fed for just a quick second. The asset purchases are continuing, you know, how long do you think that can last before some tapering begins? You know, we briefly touched on that, but I want to come back to it.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah. I mean, the fed continues to like purchase securities that, you know, to the tune of 120 billion a month, I think those questions were already mounting about tapering. After we saw these moves and commodities, we talked about a little while ago, and then, you know, we saw the recent fed minutes where they kind of touched on that idea. And so that chorus continues to get louder however, I don't think it's going to happen until late 2022 or 2023, according to the fed funds futures right now. And according to that CME fed watch tool, which goes out to December of this year. And there's no blip inside going above a quarter on the rates. So, but, you know, then you wonder, well, why? Well, I mean, the fed continues to say that they want to see metrics of better employment. I mean, even though we have falling jobs, weekly job as plains, and we've seen encouraging non-farm payroll reports each month, Although, I think we kind of drop the ball a little bit for April, but those numbers have been encouraging.
However, there's a ton of jobs and no workers. I mean, some places are literally doing paid incentives for interviews, so something doesn't add up there, right. And I did see data recently pointing to the fact that while high income and middle-income jobs have return, low-income jobs have not. So, there's still some of this, you know, the pandemic created inequality and a lot of different businesses and a lot of different sectors everywhere. And I think we're still seeing some inequality amongst the jobs. And I think until we get a handle on the job situation, there's not going to be a taper.
Patrick: And that explains why you see the CME watches projections, basically not budging because that's not something that can be fixed in a flash bang situation. That's going to take long sustained, that's going to take a sustained amount of time to fix it can't just happen at once. There can't be some bill sign that fixes everything.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, agreed. I mean, I think it, you know, it's going to be, I think we saw the big moves for jobs and, you know, in feb and March and, you know, it slowed down a little bit in April. I think we're going to start to see a little bit gradually now. And over time as, as, you know, comfortability takes place, and then things start to return to normal, which they seem to be doing rapidly at some point, hopefully we reach an equilibrium. And you know, I mean, traders are traders. So, at some point we're going to see some moves and what people are expecting for rates. But it would seem as if right now it's like, you know, late 2022 or early 2023.
Patrick: Right. And you talk about being on Twitter a ton. I keep waiting for the Brooks Capco, Bryson Daisha and Bo meme to pop up with the fed.
Jermal Chandler: I love that one, by the way.
Patrick: I keep waiting, someone has to do it. If no one's going to do it, it might as well be you or me. Because it's begging you know, the Fed's inflation stuff is begging for the Brooks meme. But I do want to pivot at least a little bit slightly, you know, I still want to talk volatility, but we, talked a lot about how it pertains to the SPX back in September. And then we've had the most recent spikes in volatility a couple of weeks ago. How can retail options traders take advantage of these spikes?
Jermal Chandler: Well yes, I mentioned, you know, we're largely premium sellers at Tasty. So, I mean, honestly, the ebb and flow of volatility this year has been good. I mean, last year VIX was persistently stuck in the thirties I've been coming off, you know, those crazy highs of 70 and 80 plus, right. And then it makes a hard trading environment. I mean, especially after that recency bias of going to 70, everybody was expecting another big move to 50, 60, or something like that. And then we have the deal of the election, of course, too like elections. I mean, there was just volatility was persistently high. This year we've seen volatility, or I should say just the VIX for example, at 30. And we've seen it as low as like 14, 15, all within the first five months of the year. So, for me, I'd say that makes a great trading environment, allows people to sell some volatility and allows you to close out, you know, some trades if they work or not and move onto the next thing, because vol is not so expansive that you can't, you know, reach across a bid-ask spreads for options.
So, I think that's been pretty decent, but you have to exercise some caution for this year because we got some new beasts out there, Patrick. I mean I'm sure you've heard of them and a lot of them are, sometimes they're just you know, letters like NFTs and SDAC, right? I mean, those are some interesting new beasts that are affecting volatility in interesting ways.
Patrick: Let me go get my, let me go get some Excedrin for the migraine that those words cause me right now.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah. I mean, it's nuts. You know, those who knows when the, who's going to be the first company to, a public company of incorporating NFTs into their balance sheet or something somehow. But when they do, you can imagine that's going to affect volatility because nobody knows how to value it yet. So, you know, SPAC is, I keep saying like, you don't necessarily know the difference between, once they go public it's hard to tell if a company was a SPAC that went public or not because of the chart doesn't fundamentally change a whole lot, right. So, it's hard to tell of course we have the main stocks, which are actually going pretty nuts today. And of course, I'm talking about GME, GameStop, we're talking about AMC. You know, another one I look at ii it doesn't have options is costs, but I mean, there's a whole bunch of them.
We know the list. So, you know, talking about meme stocks NFT's, SPACs fundamentally, we've seen volatility changed a good bit. And if you don't think they've affected volatility, I mean, just line up a GME chart with Vicks on the same chart and look back at February, March, and you'll see they were moving in tandem, so it's, crazy. And not to mention crypto's, I mean, you know, that's a big craze right now. So how does volatility, you know, how does that factor in the volatility, particularly when you're talking about one of the largest companies by market cap in the S and P 500 and Tesla that's in a trial with Bitcoin, right. So, these are interesting times. Yeah.
Patrick: Yeah, I think in September, was, you know, Bitcoin was on, was there, it was lurking, but the explosion in the past six months like you said, I think it coincides with a lot of the volatility we've been seeing. I don't know how to put a finger on it. Is there some kind of like credo or something that you can offer to a retail trader that looks all this and is just somewhat overwhelmed by everything that they're seeing?
Jermal Chandler: Well, you know, I think back to you know, across my career, I think back to times where we had, you know, things that seemed, I mean, this is interesting because these things are so like brand new, realistically, like within the last couple of years, I mean, NFT's are really fairly new. Specs have been around for a long time, or at least the idea of specs, but the amount of specs that were brought to the market in the first three months of the year was insane. You know, obviously Bitcoin has been around, I would say as far as from the training standpoint, it's been a huge thing for the past, you know, what four years or so. So, it's not quite so much new, but I think back to a time where, you know, certain sectors were just sort of really captivating the market.
When I think about rare earth metals, I remember that was a big deal in like 2010 and those names, you know any name that was connected to rare earth metals were trading at really high multiples, really high valuations. The options markets were, you know, absolutely nuts. And I guess my point is, we'll see these types of things every now and again, this does seem to be you know, I really don't know where this one's going to go, because these are more than just stocks. They're integrated into the fabric of our culture. I mean, when you see, you know something like Saturday night live have skits on NFTs and cryptos, that's telling you something. So, I don't, know exactly what it's telling you, but it's telling me something.
Patrick: Yeah. I, to me, and I don't want anyone to take this as advice, but that just seems like it's jumped the shark. If you know, SNL is making jokes about it. If like you said, it's become ingrained in the fabric of our culture shouldn't that give some people some pause?
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, I think so to some degree, I think you have to exercise some caution. And so, you know, in general, when we're, you know, at a Tasty, we try to be, we aim to be product in different, right? Like as far as when, and what I mean by that is, you know, Boeing is for example, say Boeing is making a ton of new planes and I'm interested in, you know, Boeing because of that. That's not necessarily a tasty type of deal. The idea is, oh, I'm looking at Boeing and their IV rank is relatively high compared to the past year. So, I'm interested in selling an iron condor. That's more of the tasty way so; we try to be product indifferent. We don't necessarily focus on the big stories and the narratives. I still pay attention to them because I just like to, that's just my training, but I guess it helps to have that type of training and helps to pay attention to something and maybe give an idea of what you just said. Maybe something's jumped the shark. So, I don't want to go full tilt into, you know, a new asset class in investing. I want to be a little more careful and exercise a little bit more caution. I think that's the real key there.
Patrick: Yeah, very well said. And over at Schaeffer's, you know, our expectational analysis is contrarian based. So that's why all, I see all this euphoria and all this infatuation with these things, and you wonder like, okay, how much contrarianism can you apply to this while still taking a flyer on it? And I think that's kind of the tight rope that retail investors have to balance.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, I would agree. And you have to, you know, I something up, but like use the correct strategy and if it doesn't fit, then you know, don't force it. I mean, you know, to get away from these big things NFTs and all this type of stuff craze for a second to give an example you know, Biogen, ticker, B- I- B currently, right now, if you look at it, volatility is sky high. And I looked yesterday, looked at the options market, volatility is trading like 110, which is pretty elevated from the normal, like 60 vols or something like that. I mean, it is a biotech, but something is coming out and just because the volatility is high, probably not necessarily a sell cause from what I saw, there is some type of a news on an Alzheimer's drug they got coming out in June. I think it's June 7th, if you look at the volatility you can tell the weekly, June 11 options are sky high and all the stuff after that is the options are pretty high. And so just, just because it's high doesn't necessarily mean you sell, you still have to exercise caution. And I think that's the kind of caution you have to exercise with these new asset classes. You got to be a little careful.
Patrick: Right, very well said. And that's Tasty putting in the sweat equity and putting the numbers behind all of the fads that you see. And I think that is so important and it does get lost a lot of times in the narrative.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah, I mean, we have that same type of contrarianism as you guys over at Schaeffer's, but like you said, we, you know, there's times where you exercise caution, there's times to be smart, just like I said earlier. I mean, you know, when we look at the situations, when the VIX is between 15 and 20, you know, we only want to be 30% in, if the VIX goes to 40, then, you know, the odds are better on your size and volatility is going to mean revert. So, we definitely think that way.
Patrick: Well, to start to wrap up here, I always want to hear what you guys have going on. So, what's new and exciting over at Tasty that you guys are working on?
Jermal Chandler: Dude, what aren't we working on is the better question? I mean, there's so much stuff going on. I, you know, I only know very little where I've had contact mostly electronically through and a few people in person. But you know, well, first of all, we're finishing up a combination with IG group which was big news back in January. IG group is based in the UK and IG is acquiring Tasty Trade. And so, the aim is to take Tasty Trade global you know the CEO team people way above my pay grade you know, I had some great talks with the IG group and you know, we found a combination, so IG is inquiring Tasty. So that's going to be awesome. I mean, I don't know if people across the pond want to see this face, but they better get ready.
I mean, they'd probably rather see, you know, some of the other people cool people on our show the Liz and Jenny's and you know, Nick Battista and Mike Butler and Katie McGarrigle and my buddies Pete Mulmat and Frank Kaberna. I mean, those are some, you know, the great people that do some of the programming on a Dr. Jim. So, we got some great people, so that's going to be awesome to take this kind of thing global, but I also understand we might be moving to 12 hours of content per day on the Tasty network so that would be awesome.
Yeah. Yeah, I think we're going to be up in the a and e, so, that'd be cool. We also, you know, there's, we also have a couple of sister companies. I'm not sure if you're aware, but you know, Tasty's got this cool looking conglomerate of companies and some startups, man. So, like some of our sister companies are tasty works, which is the brokerage, so again, Tasty Trade is the financial network. Tasty works is the brokerage where people can execute a lot of these ideas and things that they see you know, via the network. One of the cool things about tasty works brokerage the app and the desktop platform, they have this thing called a trader page. Now you've never seen anything like this. The trader page shows you the trades that the person on their personalities execute day in and day out, you know, when they trade, and they give you reasons for why they do their trades. I mean, if that's not cool, I don't know what is my man. And I think I informed, and I understand, I think we're getting a pattern for that trader pages. There's nothing like that. You ever seen anything like that?
Patrick: That's transparency that is unparalleled.
Jermal Chandler: Absolutely. Absolutely, so that's on the taste of works brokage platform. There's also another sister company dough incorporated. It's a millennial focus brokerage you know, Victor Jones is the CEO of that company, doing some great things over there and, you know, work with them every now and again, they're just a cool, energetic bunch. So that's a great startup they got going on. And then the small exchange, which is a retail focus, futures exchange, I mean, small exchange is pretty awesome and that you can trade a lot of futures with not these huge, like margin requirements that you have at a no exchanges. So, this is pretty awesome that the small exchange exists. And again, you know, Tom and Tony and Kristi Ross and Lynne Woodmont, you know, all these smart, smart people just create these cool companies and cool things.
And all these companies provide, you know, unique ways for self-directed investors to get their market Jones on man. So, you know, for me and myself currently, I'm on helping out on two segments. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to work my way up to more, but right now I'm doing one segment in conjunction with a small exchange called the Leap from options to futures. It's where some, myself who's a seasoned options trader who, and this is real. I had never traded a futures contract in my own personal account. I've done it on a firm level. I mean, but that's easy, you click and buy, you know, click the button with somebody else's money as a whole lot easier in doing it with your own money. So, we came up with this concept for a show and it's been great.
I work with Pete Mulmat and Frank Kaberna at the small exchange. We do a show every Tuesday and Thursday. It's a lot of fun and I'm getting to learn, and I just traded my first futures contract two weeks ago, traded a dollar, a small futures exchange, dollar contract. So that's been cool and then every Friday I team up with Tom Sosnoff and Tony Battista to do an options jive segment, where I talked to them and try and challenge them a little bit. I mean, they know it all, they've been in the business for 40 years, but I try to challenge them every week. So, I love being there and it's a great company.
Patrick: Yeah. I mean, first of all, you're going to have to send me that link so I can put that in for our listeners to check out because that sounds incredibly exciting. And as far as the European stuff, Hey, I'm a soccer guy. So, if you need any help, you know, speaking their language over there, I got you.
Jermal Chandler: No doubt, no doubt. And as long as we don't create any new super soccer teams, I mean, I think everything should be okay, right For the most part?
Patrick: Yeah, anytime you're dealing with someone global, just say, super league bad, that's all you have to say. And you're in like Flynn.
Jermal Chandler: Yeah. You know, I love watching soccer, great game. I don't necessarily have any dog in the fight. I don't have a team. But if you can convince me with a team, man, I'll ride with you.
Patrick: No, actually I don't have a team either. Just be a fan, that's all you need to do, and they'll embrace you for it.
Jermal Chandler: True, true. I like it.
Patrick: Jermal, I appreciate you coming on. I mean, it was great chatting with you. What would you say every eight months we do this maybe even a little less time in between because you know; your insight is just so valuable? I think, to the retail trader and especially if they're looking to get into options check him out, Tasty Trade.com. I'll be sure to put up all the links because you know; I got to support you guys. I love what you're doing over there.
Jermal Chandler: Thanks, Patrick. We really appreciate you, really appreciate everybody at Schaeffers. Love talking to you guys and yeah, man you know, probably sooner than eight months, let's get this back on wax again at some point soon.